Movie Minutiae - Interview: Stephen Simon
By Johnny Betts, Moviegoer Advocate
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I was recently given the opportunity to interview, via telephone, Stephen Simon - producer of such movies as
Somewhere in Time and What Dreams May Come, and now director of Conversations with God.
Adapted from the books by Neale Donald Walsch, Conversations with God tells the true story of when, at the
lowest point in Walsch’s (Henry Czerny) life, he asked God some very hard questions. The answers he got from
God/within became the foundation of an internationally acclaimed book series, that has sold over 7 million copies and
been translated into 34 languages.
Stephen was kind enough to share what he feels are the intentions of the film and what he hopes audiences will take
from it.
JB: I watched Conversations with God last night with, to be honest with you, little
to no expectations.
SS: Always a good way to go into a film. If you go into a film saying,
"Man, I've heard this thing is great, it better be!" Whew! It's a rough way for a filmmaker to have to have somebody
do it when you go into it like, "Well, I gotta watch this thing. It's probably not gonna be very good, but I'll watch
a few minutes to get an idea." That's exactly how I want people to go into the film.
JB: With little expectation.
SS: Well yeah because that way you know you're always pleasantly
surprised, you know?
JB: I know. I've seen plenty of movies with plenty of hype, and then when they don't live
up to it you can't help but be disappointed.
SS: Sure, I understand. Me too. We all have.
JB: And I hadn't read the book, Conversations with God. To be honest, I hadn't even
heard of it.
SS: I understand. You're not alone.
JB: Like you said, that's a great way to go into it because you don't know what to expect,
and you're more open to being pleasantly surprised, which I was. I had heard of Henry Czerny (Johnny's note: I had
pronounced it "Serny") mainly from some of his TV appearances.
SS: It's "Cherny."
JB: OK, thanks. And Clear and Present Danger and
The Exorcism of Emily Rose, I remember him from that.
But Michael Goorjian was really the guy who I related to the most because of Party of Five. So that was
another one of those things where you see the cast list and you think, "OK, I'm not that familiar with these people."
That kind of tempers your expectations. I felt this was a movie with a good message, and we don't have a lot of that
these days.
SS: Oh, good, thank you for that.
JB: So much seems to be violence this and sex that.
SS: It is just a constant amazement to me that you see films out now
like The Departed and The
Prestige. And they are violent, dark, ugly films about our humanity. And the critics love 'em.
(Johnny's note: I must admit that I liked them as well...)
SS: You know, the critics love 'em. And it's like, but why? And
it's OK. If you're gonna make movies about the darkness of humanity, that's valid because there are dark aspects of
our humanity. But there are so few films out there that show the other side of our humanity. That we are a conscious
species that loves and forgives. There is a beautiful side to our humanity. And most films, and certainly most
media in Hollywood today absolutely have run away from that. Totally run away from that.
JB: Everybody's attracted to that dark side.
SS: Well, the critics are. And I'm not quarreling that those
movies shouldn't be made. There's an audience for them -- great. But there's another audience as well that wants to
see films that make you feel better about being human. And what I talk about a lot with Conversations with God
is that aspect. And it sounds so simplistic. And it is. It is very simplistic, but it's sure not simple.
Particularly, in the modern world, where as I said, you look at most films, most television, most newspapers when you
pick up the headlines, certainly if you watch cable news, all you see is a constant barrage of stories and images that
are about the dark side of humanity. And there is an enormous audience that also wants to feel better about being
human. And that is certainly one of the primary intents of Conversations with God.
JB: A typical complaint that you hear with critics is, "Oh, well, that movie just had
to have a Hollywood ending! It just had to have a fairy-tale ending! Oh, why did it have to have a happy ending?"
Some people want to walk out of a theater feeling good about what they have just seen or, about life or, having some
sort of hope that they walk out with. Not everyone wants to leave depressed and disappointed and upset.
SS: Well, that's one of the reasons we made CWG. The film is not
intended to be what's called a biopic. That is not the purpose of the film. The purpose of the film is to have Neale's
experience be a metaphor for every human being that has ever gone through a dark night of the soul. And all of us
have. At least one, probably more.
JB: If we're honest.
SS: And a message of hope that you can transcend that and literally
transform your life, and do it in a way that is human and entertaining. The only frustration I have as a filmmaker
when people see the film on screeners, which is unavoidable, completely unavoidable, is that you don't get the
experience of sitting in the theater. And in the theater there is an enormous amount of laughter all throughout the
film. There's a lot of humor and a lot of laughter which is purely intentional, so that audiences walk out with a
sense of having had an experience that's a story.
You brought up the idea of Henry Czerny and you've heard of him and you saw him, but you hadn't heard of anybody
else -- good. Because to me, what filmmaking is supposed to be about is taking people on a journey with a story where
they're not aware of the director making really fancy things where the director is saying, "Hey, look at me, don't
look at the movie! Look at what I can do with the camera!" And it's where the actors aren't all recognizable so that
you just get lost in the story. And that is a lost art in Hollywood. You just don't find that as much anymore, and
it was one of the, as I said, one of the very conscious intents of this film.
JB: Because if you see a movie with Tom Cruise, you know, well Tom Cruise is the hero, he's
gonna come through with flying colors.
SS: That's right.
JB: That's what you get lost in. Or you're looking on screen and you're like, "Hey, there's
Alec Baldwin!" "Oh, look, it's Paul Walker!"
SS: That's exactly correct.
JB: And I agree with you, that there are moments when that can take you out of the story
itself. Well, I'm curious ... I was reading in the press notes where you had mentioned the three books that you felt
you just had to see to the screen. What was it that was so unique about this book that you really felt it demanded a
film adaptation?
SS: When you read the book, the book does not look like a film in any
way. The book is a dialog between Neale and God. That is the entire book. So, when you look at the book, it does not
jump out at you as a film.
When I got to know Neale, it wasn't until we totally got into the development process of this, that I really got to
know the details of Neale's life living as a homeless man on the street with a broken neck collecting cans and all
of his experiences that he went through. And, by the way, there is nothing in that film, there isn't a single thing
in that film, not a single event, that we manufactured.
All of those things happened to Neale. Even the jackhammer sequence -- you know, waking up in the tent, making the
phone call, having the jackhammer go on -- all of those things are things that happened, and I thought this is an
incredible way to tell a very empowering, uplifting story, and also have these extraordinary messages from CWG in the
film.
This vision of God that is in the film is a nondenominational spirituality. It does not in any way denigrate or
elevate any belief system about God. It is just about faith. And one of the things that I've been so touched by and
moved by, has been the response in the Christian audience and in the Christian media to our film. There's a place
called christianhotspot.com and hollywoodjesus.com, that have given absolutely glowing and wonderful reviews and
recommendations to CWG. And that's wonderful and encouraging to me because I believe people who are on a spiritual
path, and people who are on a traditionally religious path, have much more in common than there is in difference.
And this film is intended to bridge -- to be a bridge -- between these belief systems.
JB: So somebody who might be a little skeptical doesn't need to fear going in that, "Oh,
they want to change my life, but they want the movie to change my life by changing my belief system"?
SS: Oh, listen. I don't want to change anybody's life. The intention
of this is not to change anyone's life, or change anybody's belief system. That, to me, would be a definite misuse of
a film. In many ways, actually, the film itself may indeed confirm for people their own belief system. And that's
great. That's great. This is not meant to be, in any way, a challenge to anybody's belief system. It is just a
belief in God. And a belief in what when you believe in God, what it can do in your life, no matter of how you define
God. The exact definition doesn't matter. It's how you find that in your life.
JB: I thought probably the best example of that in the movie was when Neale was doing an
interview and he was talking about, you're in the car, and you're going through something, and a song comes on the
radio, and that song may have never had meaning to you before in your life.
SS: But all of a sudden it speaks directly to you.
JB: The lyrics just seem like they were written perfectly for you.
SS: Or somebody walks into your life, and they walk in at exactly
the right moment ... that's God! One of the things that we talk about in the film as well is that God speaks to
everyone all the time. The question is, who listens?
JB: Are we taking notice?
SS: Yeah, are we paying attention to that? And how do we relate to
that? Neale and I just finished an 18-city tour with the film. 18 cities in 44 days. Now to show the film to an
audience, and fortunately almost all of the screenings were sold out, there were a couple that didn't because they were
in huge venues, but almost all of the screenings were sold out. We showed the film, depending on the size of the
venue, from audiences ranging from 300 to 1200 people.
And then we would always do a Q&A afterwards. And we have heard, literally, because we counted them, now, 16 different
interpretations of the last scene of the film.
JB: The one where he walks with himself?
SS: Yes. And, literally, we've heard 16 FASCINATING different
interpretations of the ending. And that's wonderful!
JB: You want people to take from it what they get out of it.
SS: Correct! And we're always asked, "Well, what did you intend?"
My first answer to that is, "Well if I tell you, I'll have to kill you." But my serious answer to that is, what I
intended is completely unimportant. What you take away from that is what's important. There's a wonderful phrase
that I think really applies to that: "When art answers its own questions, it becomes dangerous. When art asks the
question, and doesn't answer it, it can be inspirational." And we hope that that is what people will take away
from the film, and talk about the ending with friends and say, "What did it mean to you?" and how did it feel to me?
And that's wonderful, and there is no right or wrong.
JB: Create that dialog.
SS: Yeah, and there is no right or wrong way to create the dialog
and a conversation with God.
JB: That's a good point because I always wonder, what does the director or the
screenwriter want me to get from this? Am I supposed to come up with my own conclusions? But I felt that you were
leaving it open to interpretation.
SS: That image, the final scene, was the very first thing that ever
occurred to me when we sat down and developed the project. I walked into the first development meeting with Neale and
our screenwriter which was in January of 2005. And I said, "Listen, I don't know what the other 98% of the movie is
gonna be yet, but I can tell you this is going to be the final scene."
JB: So that was your idea?
SS: Oh yeah, this is the image that came to me, the very first image
that ever came to me, and I had a very specific reason for doing it. And I have a very specific interpretation of it
for myself. As a director, you can't put something up there that you don't believe in, that you don't have your own
interpretation of, and then just say well everybody will take from this something different. There has to be, you
have to have a point of view. It's just good not to share it. I'm thrilled that people are having these conversations
about what that last sequence of the film means. I just think it's wonderful.
JB: That's what you want to leave the audience with - something to discuss afterwards.
SS: And also to be feeling good. The message in that last sequence
is a loving and beautiful message from God. And that is what I want people to walk out of the theater feeling. I
want them to feel better. And there's another thing as well. The film opens this weekend, and I know it's opening
in Memphis ... at something called Studio on the Square. And what we're doing all around the country is saying to
people, "Look, please come see the film opening weekend." And if people do, they'll send a message to the media and
to Hollywood that people will support movies about hope and compassion. And there's a large audience out there that
simply rejects what is now the tired Hollywood formula of fear and violence.
That is something that we certainly hope will come about, when, as this movie opens up across the United States,
'cause it's opening up in 46 different cities on Friday, so it's very much of a national release.
JB: And like you said, there are a lot of people who just aren't receiving the type of
uplifting entertainment that they want to spend their two hours' worth of time and money on.
SS: You bet, and they also are pretty sick of Hollywood mis-marketing
to them. You know, marketing a film to them that looks like it's gonna be that way, and then you get in the theater
and it's something completely different.
JB: Trailers can be very misleading.
SS: Very misleading.
JB: It's all a marketing campaign.
SS: Have you looked at the website, the Conversations with God
website?
JB: Yes, I was reading your blog today actually. And it looks like audience reaction has
been very good for the movie.
SS: Audience reaction has been extraordinary. We showed the film to
10,000 people on that tour. And we didn't have one person walk out the entire time. Now that's amazing. You always
get somebody who came in thinking it was gonna be bingo night.
It's been very gratifying that people really have responded to the film like they have and we hope, obviously, that
that'll be the same when it opens in theaters this weekend.
JB: And that gets word of mouth going around.
SS: That's the most important thing. There's only so much you can
do to hype a film. You can whet people's appetites for it. But when people go to see it, and they tell their friends,
that's the only thing that matters at the end of the day. Unfortunately, what's happened is that a lot of people now
have basically said, "Well, you know what? I'm gonna wait to see movies on DVD."
And it winds up being a very, very catch-22 type of situation because people don't go to theaters to support these
kinds of films. And the people who financed and distributed them say, "Look! There's no interest in this type of
film. People won't go to the theaters, we're not gonna make these movies." So people who wait for these movies on
DVD are basically gonna wake up one morning, and realize they're not getting a lot of these movies on DVD because
they're not going to the theaters to support them when they're there.
JB: A large reason for that is that a lot people are tired of what's being shown on the screen.
So they think, "I'll wait. I'll save a little bit of money, pick it up on DVD and see if I like it rather than paying
twice as much to see it on the big screen." But if you hear from a friend that you trust, "Yeah, I saw this movie.
It was good, it's actually uplifting as compared to whatever else Hollywood is giving us these days. You should go
see it," people can trust that and go to that.
SS: That's one of the reasons that we did -- that was actually the
primary reason -- that we did the speaking tour. So that people would be able to tell their friends around the country
that they saw this film and to urge them to go out to the theaters and see it this weekend.
We have several million e-mails going out this week from people as diverse as Deepak Chopra and Marianne Williamson,
and all of the people who have a deep spiritual belief in their lives are urging people to get out and see the film and
to go to theaters to support it.
JB: From a Christian perspective, the thing I did like about the movie is I never thought it
came across as preaching or saying, "Hey we're trying to hit you over the head with this!" It just presented its
message: Here's a man who was at his lowest point in life, giving what I thought was a very interesting depiction of
homeless life in the struggle to regain what you once had or to regain your sense of self-worth.
I liked that it said, "Here's a man, and here's what he did. Here's the point in his life he came to. And he reached
out to God and had these conversations with God, and here's the message of hope we're giving you. God is speaking to
us if we listen. The question is, are we listening?"
But I never felt it was heavy-handed. I never felt it was saying believe this, or what you're believing now is wrong.
It just affirmed, and that's what I liked about it.
SS: Oh thank you, I appreciate that. That was the intent of the
film. I'm very gratified that you came away from that. It certainly is not a movie that is meant to do anything.
It's not meant to challenge anybody or anybody's belief system. It's meant to be comfort and an
inspiration.
JB: I think the people who want this type of movie are going to go to it. Like you
said, you just have to get the word out.
SS: Well, we are, so thank you for talking this morning. That will
help.
JB: Thank you for your time. I know you're busy. I know you've got more people to talk to.
SS: Well thank you, I appreciate it very much. Thank you for coming
to it with that open heart. And I must tell you it is constantly a comfort to me when I talk to people who are
Christian who come to the film with their belief system who walk away from it feeling that it wasn't confrontational,
that it was comforting, that it was fun, that it was uplifting. There is so much hatred in the world, and there's so
much bitterness, and there's so much conflict, that people who have Christian beliefs or Jewish beliefs or Buddhist
beliefs or whatever -- as long as they are human and loving and caring and respectful of each other's dignity -- it's
just wonderful that we can all come together and agree on something.
Please urge your readers to come out and see the film.
Conversations with God opens in Memphis today (October 27) exclusively at Studio on the Square.
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